I don't mean to be butt-hurt about this, but I've drawn something similar and I've come to realize how much of a ... politically incorrect statement I've made by drawing exactly this. (Like yours, a fetishized, idealized scantily clad aboriginal woman adorned in a massive head-dress/war bonnet)
TL;DR of the link is, "There is a history of genocide and colonialism involved that continues today ... [and] it's just like wearing blackface."
Yes exactly, this shit is racist as fuck. Fuck "Political Correctness", as it was virtually made up as a straw man in the '80s anyway.
It's simple:When something is racist it's racist. When something is supported by and in turn supports racist stereotypes leading to the dehumanization of an already conquered and decimated People, it's racist. When a white person illustrates a sexualized objectified eye-candy ignorant as fuck stereotype of a person who in real life would be at an INSANELY high risk of rape, statistically, BECAUSE of her race, that shit is racist.
This shit is racist. There is seriously no philosophical quibbling or hairsplitting you can do here; this shit is racist. If you understand what the word "racist" means, and the history of the colonization of the Americas, this shit is racist.
This. Shit. Is. Racist. Do I have to look at it? No. Do I think you should be censored? No, even though (I think) you're not a citizen of the US and are therefore not covered by our free speech laws, because I believe in "free speech" as a principle. I believe in it precisely because it encourages racist people to publically out themselves as racist, and it allows people like us to publically identify them as racists.
So (to the artist) congratulations you're racist. That doesn't mean you have to change who you are, unless you want to, but at least go forward from this day knowing that.
YES. I wanted to skim through the comments first to see if someone actually said something about this. No shade to the artist because they do amazing work, but at the same time this is overly sexualization of Native american/Aboriginal women. It's offensive to an extent and I know he wanted something that is pin up material. Recommendations is to either draw a native women with out headdress/feathers. For all due respect for the culture and the women of the culture is to not do the headdress of draw white women in native american attire.
I disagree with everything you guys say or imply. "Polical correctness" is an utterly fuzzy concept - depending on age, geography, gender, cultural backround, intellect you might find different things "offensive" (or not). In fact there is nothing you can possibly do, make, or say that is not offensive in a way since "offensiveness" is by no means an universal, objective measure. This reduces PC'ness to nothing else but another ideolgy which people rely on to make others feel miserable.
That said, anyone who finds this picture offensive is free to move on - nobody forces you to be here.
If that isn't enough and you find the idea unbearable that a person might chose to express themselves in a manner that you find "tasteless" (another very fuzzy concept) and this person does not phsically hurt you, does not intrude in your personal space, does not hinder you in expressing yourself the way you like, does not take away your personal liberties, you should seriously consider suicide, since nobody in their right mind will give single flying f*** about what you think or feel.
You know because I really didn't "Read" everything you said. Because I was just like "Sigh here it comes. Seems like they have to come and attack me so let me just shut em down." But did you just tell me to kill myself?
Matter of fact reading this over again and you make no fucking sense at all. But let me reel the conversation back a bit. You just told me to go kill myself there for fuck you. I'm sorry but I know I wasn't going to flood the artists box with anything but seriously this person/comment they made is screwed up since they are suggesting that I should commit suicide.
Shit block my comments if you have to but at the end the day no one ever needs to be told to kill themselves just because they are stating the facts.
It should be quite obvious that my comment wasn't directed at you specificly at all. Quote: "I disagree with everything YOU GUYS say or imply."
Furthermore I said: "That said, anyone who finds this picture offensive is free to move on - nobody forces you to be here."
The comment about suicide was meant for all people who find the idea _unbearable_ (get the difference?) that some people don't see the need to conform to what other people preceive to be "politically correct". Do you belong to this group?
Apart from that, I don't take the feelings of "the native people" seriously, simply because "the native people" does not refer to a hive-minded collective but to a group of individuals. Likely some of them will find this picture offensive - but some won't, some will like it, some will find it sexy. Therefore talking about "the feelings of native people" in that matter is silly (since they do not share collective feelings, being individuals and all).
*sigh*, and yeah I get it, I dislike political correctness, therefore I must be a racist.
At the end of the day you're a racist for stating the following "I don't take the feelings of the 'Native people' Seriously, simple because the native people does not refere to a hive minded collective but to a group of individuals."- Okay this doesn't make sense. So just because a few native americans doesn't find it "offensive" all the rest of native americans don't matter there for do what ever you want to continue to appropriate them and their culture.
Lol okay so that suicide threat wasn't against me? But it was against me and others because I do not agree with the choice of the picture and how it was represented. So I should proceed to kill myself?
It's funny because people like you are ignorant and sociopaths who don't care about anyone of color who has a background with a culture that has been ripped and shredded down to that particle of existence but you people believe that they shouldn't even get dignity or respect but you believe you should have all of it.
No seriously go fuck yourself. I like how you decided to come after me instead of the original poster of this message. I mean you could have easily argued with her and told her to kill herself (in a sense that you did) but instead you chose to start with me.
Anyways please stop talking to me because I still stand on this picture being offensive, you're offensive and you don't give a fuck so why the hell are you talking to me?
"I like how you decided to come after me instead of the original poster of this message. I mean you could have easily argued with her and told her to kill herself (in a sense that you did) but instead you chose to start with me."
A case of unwarranted self-importance. You were on the bottom of the line (of people arguing that this picture is offensive). Call me lazy.
"At the end of the day you're a racist for stating the following "I don't take the feelings of the 'Native people' Seriously, simple because the native people does not refere to a hive minded collective but to a group of individuals."- Okay this doesn't make sense. So just because a few native americans doesn't find it "offensive" all the rest of native americans don't matter there for do what ever you want to continue to appropriate them and their culture."
Let me chose another example to illustrate what I mean. As you might know, women of anglo-american background are more likely to find media with sexualized depiction of women offensive than women of european background. Have you ever asked yourself why that is? Because the cultural background is entirely diffrent. Sexualized depictions can only be seen as "degrading" when you presume that what they show is unnatural, bad, against proper morals etc. Since Europeans are generally more relaxed in such matters, they are not offended.
Another example. In Germany we have a traditional gown for women called "Dirndl". It is frequently sexualized and fetished in our media, yet nobody cares. Same reason as above. Some older people complain, but they are ignored.
On the next page of this comment section you will find a user of native background, who even _likes_ this picture. Now if you would have it your way and this picture would be removed because it is "offensive" you would deprive him of one of his pleasures. Oddly, he belongs to the group of people you want to protect. See the problem here? How many people of native origin do you think have sexualized fantasies about their own culture, yet are not allowed to express themselves because simple-minded moralists like you presume to tell them what they should find offensive?
"Lol okay so that suicide threat wasn't against me? But it was against me and others because I do not agree with the choice of the picture and how it was represented. So I should proceed to kill myself?"
What is a suicide threat?...apart from that, I already answered this on. There is a diffrence between not liking a depiction, or presuming to bully other people to not express themselves the way they want because of you happen to have a problem with that. If the latter is the case this kind of people may find suicide a comfortable option, since they won't be happy. Ever.
"It's funny because people like you are ignorant and sociopaths who don't care about anyone of color who has a background with a culture that has been ripped and shredded down to that particle of existence but you people believe that they shouldn't even get dignity or respect but you believe you should have all of it. "
What's a wagonload of bullcrap. How do you know that "I don't care about anyone of colour", or that they should not get "any dignity and respect". The respect I give them is the same I give anyone: I would never dare to tell them how to express themselves (even if they chose to sexualize my culture), I would never dare to intrute in their private place, I would never dare to physically hurt them or tell them what to do, as long as they don't phsically hurt me, or try to hinder me in the pursuit of all the things I have mentioned above. I am willing to grant them _exactly_ the same rights I would grant myself. Now, unlike you (and some others) I understand that the price of freedom is the willingness for compromise. I am originally Polish, but I grew up in Germany. I had my fair share of discrimination in my life. But I would never forbid anyone to make a joke about Polish people. Why? Freedom of Speech.
Concerning native americans: If you _really_ care about them: Give them back their country. Or at least enough land to live a decent life. That would be a show of character. THIS is just a show on how one-dimensional your view on media (and how it affects people) is. Stereotypes are harmful? No. Mind-sets are harmful. Our whole perception is built around sterotypes: You can't think about anything as simple as an apple without automatically stereotyping (the picture in your mind will likely be an idealised, or a tleast simplified vision of an apple which does not reflect any apple that actually exists, let alone pays respect of the variety of all apples in existence). Yet, though we stereotype every step of our way, we are still able to interact with others quite well, because ultimatly it's your character that decides how a sterotype affects you.
"Anyways please stop talking to me because I still stand on this picture being offensive, you're offensive and you don't give a fuck so why the hell are you talking to me?"
Oh really, it's more about everyone else than you.
Now I understand that I am rude (I can't help that, but that really doens't mean I am racist because -you know - I dislike people _equally_). Yet this really shouldn't keep anyone from seeing that I have a point. I understand that you are concerned about what others feel (and I don't critize that), yet I think that PC'ness is not the way to go, since it puts people way too much into firm categories. From the perspective of PC people, natives are humans who have very _specific_ needs and are offended by very _specific_ things. Natives that fall out of those categories because they are different are ignored "because they are likely the minority". Now tell me: How does pointing out that the majority of native people would find this picture offensive allow you to (passively) oppress those natives, who like (and cherish) those kind of depictions?
No. NO TO ALL OF THIS. Please stop. Because everything about this is wrong.
First off this is how you fucked up.
You took the topic of a Native American/Aboriginal People and derailed the whole topic making it your own. This is not about European women and how German culture is appropriated. I'm sorry that the american media/the rest of the world continues to hypersexualize German culture but I can't say it's the same as the Native american people.
Seriously I don't know where you are going with this. Native Americans had their lives taken from them along with their culture and you only can find few of them today. WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO REMEMBER THEM WITH OUT NEGATIVE STEREOTYPES OF THEIR CULTURE/WOMEN. I'm not changing my opinion on that and how I feel about it.
Simple fact that I'm not going to drive away from when you told people to kill themselves. That makes you a shit person all around. "Oh I dislike all people" Good for you but at the end of the day you've shown many people that you do not care about anyone mentally to go tell them to commit suicide.
No. Don't apologize for your so called poor "English" because you were able to express some seriously ignorant hateful shit.
Ha. "Give back to the native people." Don't you think if native people could get their LANDS back that they could have? No. Because they can't get it back because you know why? They have been pushed into a racist society and racist views that the world portrayed them and it's just not in america. It's Canada, Australia, ect. So for you to tell "Help the natives get their land back" is quite funny. You're all for helping them reclaim their homes, but not their dignity and culture.
Sure it's okay to violate and appropriate their heritage, skin, rights, women, and freedom. But it's not okay for them to not have land....Let's just take it where it needs to go.
How do you know what native people want and desire when you are white and clearly don't understand the struggle it is to be a Minority (God I hate that word) in a world who perceive you as; Dead, extinct, drunks, gambling addicts, sluts, all source to mother nature, bums, lazy, ect...ect..ECT.
Sure I'm not Fully Native American/Aboriginal. I won't even go into a whirlwind of how I might have Native American in me because at the end of the day that doesn't excuse me from hurting the people with ignorant nonsense. I am not a spokesman for the native voice because trust me if some native american deviants saw your little comments. They would be pissed. Sure you have some Native Americans on here who expressed. "I am native and I am not offended." all because they either aren't or they just want to make the artist himself feel comfortable.
Like I said I am not Native American but I will stand up for Native people who are offended and tired of being offended by people who don't care about none of their pain and struggles. People like you are reasons why pictures like this are still created.
"Everyone believes in stereotypes." no buddy all stereotypes came from one group of people. One source. One hate and belief system. You're apart of that group and you are not an individual. You're a racist and that's the end of it.
Now if you don't like what I said and how I feel and what I think. Then guess what. I don't give a fuck. Next message you send me trying to "Enlighten" the masses on how it's ok to bully people when there isn't enough of their own people to back them up I'm just going to delete it.
Wow you know I couldn't take your opinion seriously because you can't take the feelings of native american's and Aboriginal people seriously. Yes the picture is indeed offensive and I believe that the artist should at least know that these types of stereotypes are indeed harmful. I believe that the artist *Elias-Chatzoudis is amazing and I've followed them for some time. All I am doing is informing and not trying to throw shade onto them.
Now you for instance. You are very fucking rude and obviously a racist idiot. Goodbye.
This conversation is over and I do not wish to fill the artists comment box with your ignorant bullshit.